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and i hope you love yourself now the way you are.
thank you for sharing,
Coal Kills: Anniversary 2:48AM Crandall Canyon Mine Disaster
by jlms qkw on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:05:05 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
am still here.
I Got The News Today: Remembering our fallen soldiers
by a girl in MI on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:13:26 PM PDT
Peace!
by nabwilson on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:23:49 PM PDT
Look at it this way - you get twice the cake and ice cream and more (if you play your cards right!) presents! Seriously, you are now able to be more yourself than you were 6 years ago and that you is probably very exiting and fun to know.
So .. what kind of cake do you like?
Grandma Jo II
by glitterscale on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:26:18 PM PDT
and into the light of acceptance and love. I am glad you wrote this moving diary.
You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley
by murrayewv on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:29:42 PM PDT
by a girl in MI on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:05:46 PM PDT
open-source: Environmental Americanandnetrootsdaily.com
by NetRootsDaily on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:43:58 PM PDT
... you obviously haven't had my cooking yet. :D
P.S. Thanks for writing!
Let us discard all this quibbling about this man or the other man, this race or that race...Let us unite as one people declaring that all men are created equal
by ThatTallGuy on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:47:08 AM PDT
That's a very interesting way of looking at it.
One feast for birth. One feast for overcoming death. Your own personal Christmas and Easter.
There are worse ways to live. :)
Finding God in a Dog
by maxomai on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 11:13:07 PM PDT
Born Again!
When civilizations clash, barbarism wins.
by Allogenes on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:56:26 AM PDT
had Jerry Falwell on CNN. I was watching with my Mom and Dad, and the topic of gays came up. Falwell said that gay teens would be better off killing themselves. I suppose I turned beet red, because my Mom later asked me if I was gay---I denied it. In later years I wavered between self-loathing and suicidal thoughts, until I went to college and discovered reason.
I'm glad I didn't kill myself, and I'm glad you didn't either. I am hopeful that it's now easier to come out.
Ecrasez l'infame!
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:38:51 PM PDT
thousands of young people. That's why. It's of course impossible to know how many children he killed with his Christ-like advice...I think it is in the thousands, though. St. Peter will hopefully have a roster.
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:49:08 PM PDT
by a girl in MI on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:07:06 PM PDT
in the place Jerry Falwell went to.
by elmo on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:27:06 PM PDT
Possum for Congress Make Peace Possible. Jerry Northington.
by llbear on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:59:35 PM PDT
Jerry Falwell's advice was nowhere near "Christ-like" because Christ's only commandments were to love God and love your neighbor. Falwell didn't show a lot of love, IMO. You're right, though, Falwell killed a lot of teens and young adults. I know of at least one college friend who killed himself because he knew he was gay and that the church and the kids in Campus Crusade wouldn't let him remain a member in good standing if he came out.
"Never, never, NEVER give up!" --Winston Churchill
by rioduran on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:36:46 PM PDT
that clear. Apologies.
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:07:50 PM PDT
but wasn't sure...I didn't think you meant it in a mean way.
by rioduran on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:32:46 PM PDT
No way someone could be spending that much time condemning gay sex if he didn't spend all day thinking about it.
It's like saying don't think of the color red...
I'm running for office! Click here to support me!
by djtyg on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:33:51 PM PDT
it's closeted homosexuals doing the condemning has a basis in reality, but I doubt that it's that simple...at all. I think it's a way for sinners of all stripes to say "at least I'm not X". This is what the worst off of the whites in Alabama said when I was a kid: "at least we're not black", only they didn't say "black".
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:50:54 PM PDT
that Fred Phelps is gay? Every time he confronts the "fags" at some demonstration, he becomes so gleeful in a way that only a closeted "fag" could.
Try Mariva's Guide. You'll like it!
by mariva on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:11:10 PM PDT
his psyche, but, then, neither does anyone who claims he's gay.
I appreciate what you mean, but....
It's really insulting to me that people think the ones hating gays are gay themselves. No doubt, there are many prominent anti-gays who are closet-cases...and let's call 'em out!
However, it starts to kinda feel like the way folks say Hitler's mom was a jew and that's why etc....
I'm just saying: I don't think that the reason gays are violently discrimated against is because of closeted moralist preachers....
Anyway, this is a rather complex topic, and I just wanted to respond quickly, and also let you know that I understand what you mean, and I respect your opinion.
Best,
Jeff
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:16:42 PM PDT
I think there are a few reasons that meme is so powerful. One is that there was a psychological experiment conducted with men (homophobic and non-) who got aroused by various pornography. Consistently, the results showed that the most homophobic men became the most aroused by gay pornography. (I would love to find a link to this, but I have to go pick someone up in a minute.)
Another is that believing homophobes have same-sex tendencies is a way to disarm them.
But you're right; it is a stereotype, and it's not necessarily helpful.
I have to run, but I'd be curious to read your reply if you have time.
Best wishes.
by mariva on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:34:11 PM PDT
many who are vocal and viscerally anti-gay (or anything else) can often either be sublimating their own desires in an effort to erase them (happens at various levels of consciousness), trying to prove to themselves that they are not. Some, as I believe many Republican politicians of late, use the tactic to divert any attention and suspicions of them and still others have real self-hate and guilt, and since they can't 'in their minds' attack themselves, they attack 'the other' whom they see as having the trait they hate in themselves.
And getting back to Biblical for a minute... If the fundies looked at the wreckage their beliefs and actions cause on this topic and refer back to (no pun) "you shall know a tree by its fruit," they could begin to see (okay, pun intended) they have been barking up the wrong tree! Oh well....
hinc illae lacrimae
by coffeeinamrica on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:16:06 PM PDT
your thoughtful response!
by mariva on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 03:16:28 PM PDT
preachers just know that homosexuality is unpopular in their religious community because of years of false teachings and that its a group that can still be attacked. its their own "pew" research determining what issue to rally their flocks around to make money.
Wasn't operation chaos the RNC's '06 midterm election plan?
by dvschase on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:39:19 AM PDT
The "wedge issue" as it's known in politics.
Sorry I was too late to recommend your thoughtful response.
by mariva on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 03:22:45 PM PDT
to The Advocate. Or at least to a bunch of teen-idol, boy-band magazines targeted to the teen girl demographic (supposedly).
I can just imagine him sitting around looking at these magazines saying, "Oh, how sinful!" -- as he's turning the pages, eager to see the next "sinful" picture.
by mariva on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:09:02 PM PDT
the reason Jerry spent all that time on 'gays' and 'abortion' was because those twigs were so much easier to see than the planks of pridefulness, gluttony, greed, self-righteousness, false preaching... uh, I'd better stop there, getting Carpal tunnel! in his own eyes!
by coffeeinamrica on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:05:15 PM PDT
Some years ago, I was hurt that my brother, with whom I have always been very close, wouldn't come out to me, and denied being gay like you did with your mom. I remember so clearly when he finally told me, and how we both cried like big babies (like I'm doing now). He made me understand that it had not been a question of my acceptance of him, but of his acceptance of himself.
I hate to think of all the people who go through this pain, with an able assist by the likes of Falwell. And that is why we need one day of silence a year, and loud voices the other 364.
Peace.
Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.
by not a cent on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:57:58 PM PDT
I did come out to my family, and I was not accepted. They do not support me at all. I've been told that for as long as any of us are alive, I'm to leave "that life" out of our family. And so it goes. I have no choice in the matter, and I accept their terms. What else can I do? I'm very, very, very damaged and hurt by it, though. Very much indeed.
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:02:44 PM PDT
you. I've never understood how someone can do that to their own family member.
by a girl in MI on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:08:25 PM PDT
say I'm over it; however, I am not. I welcomed reading your diary, even though it's a difficult topic.
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:10:34 PM PDT
I was disowned by one side of my family. I couldn't even attend my grandfather's funeral because of it.
Fortunately, I have a lot of other great, supportive family members. But that little sting never goes away.
One failure after another and the final result is anarchy. -edscan
by BoiseBlue on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:07:23 PM PDT
For reasons not having to do with my sexuality, my mother (mostly) stopped communicating with me. That was in 1995. I spent a long time coming to terms with it and thought I had. But when she died last year I found that there was still more feelings to deal with.
For me it has been essential to have/create/find a source or sources of nourishment and support from others including my spiritual life, my wife, friends. Finally, over time and with patience I have learned to deepen a sense of self-acceptance that is not dependent on what anybody else thinks of me. This has been a longterm process which I am still working on.
by ammasdarling on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:58:57 AM PDT
i was unprepared for the unacceptance...so it hit me hard. I like to say I'm over it too, but i am not. It is just something that is always there. I am just learning not to be self destructive about it, and the easiest way for me to do that is to acknoledge that it does upset me that they aren't there for me.
by dvschase on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 07:43:17 AM PDT
including us here.
by jlms qkw on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:10:59 PM PDT
and stable adult now. I just thought this diary was a very appropriate time for me to recount what it is like discovering you are gay in this world. I don't want to concern anyone at all, just inform through my anecdote. Thanks for your kindness!
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:14:20 PM PDT
these stories of intolerance, especially by one's family. I am glad you were able to work through it.
by frey60 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:29:56 PM PDT
didn't find the acceptance and love that you deserve. I have to admit that I can't understand it, but I guess that bigotry can be so ingrained in some people that they can't see around it.
And, btw, I think I'm a great sibling, but not because I am not a bigot. There is nothing special about not being bigotted, it should be the norm. Maybe some day.
by not a cent on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:12:50 PM PDT
This is why I always make a point of using the term "family" expansively. There's "family of origin" and "family of choice". My FOO is relatively cool with it all, although at times it seems we're from other planets.
My family though - the family of my heart and soul - oh, they are the world to me - the sun, the moon, the stars in the sky...
To a large extent, I survived being a 15 y/o babydyke coming out due to the love and concern of our elders. I take pretty seriously our obligation to be family to each other, and especially to the kids coming out now who don't necessarily get what they need from this culture or their families of origin.
I'm sorry you've not been welcomed and appreciated for who you are by your family of origin, but glad to hear that you've found peace.
"I like to go into Marshall Field's in Chicago just to see all the things there are in the world that I do not want." M. Madeleva, C.S.C.
by paxpdx on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:24:36 PM PDT
I'm tired of hearing about vitriolic homophobes who convert to understanding and compassion just because their kids turn out to be gay. As long as it's other people's kids, gays can go to hell.
by doc2 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:54:26 PM PDT
can say that about so many conservatives and various issues (e.g., Nancy and Ron Reagan supporting stem cell research).
I'm not sure why some people are unable to have compassion for those with problems or, in the case of being LGBT, simply differences without being affected by it personally.
I wonder what the coming-out conversation in the Cheney household was like.
by mariva on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:19:10 PM PDT
Some people hate until they realize they are only hating themselves, and then they figure it out. Some people never figure it out. And some people, probably because they have decent parents (and let's face it, that's where all of this starts), don't have to hate to be human.
by not a cent on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:56:30 PM PDT
I've never understood parents who claim the best for their kids but are unwilling to help other kids also have the best.
It is just a foreign mindset to me. Becoming a parent made me care (even more) for all kids, not simply my own. But for some people, becoming a parent was just another way of extending selfishness, but denying it, since they were focused on someone outside themselves: i.e. their child/children. (But only, of course, on "their" child/ren).
Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel
by a gilas girl on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:02:56 PM PDT
and I think, on the plus side, it's the reason why LGBTs have formed such a close-knit, powerful community with fierce bonds and lifelong friendships. LGBTs have had no choice but to create their own families (and parades, clinics, support groups, churches, community centers, and so on), and those families tend to be just as strong -- if not stronger -- than biological/legal families.
Your handle suggests that you're in New York City, which thankfully has a huge out LGBT population. I hope you've found a supportive community there.
by mariva on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:15:37 PM PDT
My husband started reading about the UCC after learning that Obama was a member of the denomination. We had not been able to find a church that felt comfortable to us, because we just can't stand the judgmental pious attitudes of most of them. We decided to try out the UCC church here in our town (Orlando FL area) and we were immediately in love with it. I have never been to a church that openly supports LGBT members. Even the most tolerant churches are more "don't ask, don't tell" in attitude. My brother-in-law, who was gay, died last summer of aids. It felt good to choose the church's memory garden as his final resting place because we knew he would have been accepted there in life. There are accepting communities...they are just difficult to find in our society. Thank you to the United Church of Christ for its acceptance and its policy that ALL are welcome and loved. It sure makes it easier on my husband knowing that his brother's ashes are in a place where he would have been warmly accepted in life as a gay man.
by dijo on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:56:42 AM PDT
there are many sects and specific houses of worship that openly embrace LGBTs. They're easier to find in "liberal" areas, but I believe they're all around the country (and the world), and hopefully their numbers are increasing.
My condolences for the loss of your family member.
Sorry I was too late to recommend your response.
by mariva on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 03:21:22 PM PDT
a thing, such a terrible, terrible thing. May he roast in Hell for voicing such a narrow-minded statement! A man of God? Bullshit!
by phrogge prince on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:25:48 PM PDT
so long ago, and I don't think anybody batted an eye when he said it. This was 1988-1992 sometime. I'm looking for it.
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:30:56 PM PDT
by phrogge prince on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:25:37 PM PDT
at work, I should be able to get it. I will post a diary when I find the transcript. I haven't tried before, but I know it was about 20 years ago.
by jeff in nyc on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:09:39 PM PDT
than I thought he was.
John McCain says women shouldn't have the right to choose.
by Cowalker on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:08:56 AM PDT
you are still here too!
by frey60 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:17:41 PM PDT
wish could say the same. But, for various reasons their demons won.
"The great thing in the world is not so much where we stand, as in what direction we are moving." Oliver Wendell Holmes
by AvoMonster on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:28:44 PM PDT
wide narrow
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