View Story | 231 comments
Comments: Expand Shrink Hide (Always) | Indented Flat (Always)
by Parker2001 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:17:23 PM PDT
are these SDs waiting? They must see what the fighting is doing to Obama. It may not hurt him later, but it certainly won't help him. Plus all this money is being spent that could be used for better purposes.
Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth. -Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1939 [-4.38, -3.18]
by peteri2 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:20:23 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
they probably want to land the last death blow before Hillary's supporters can claim that she, the underdog, has the whole establishment against her.
They don't want the voters to react to their disproportionate impact upon the race.
It's like they take pride in being ignorant.
by jkennerl on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:21:41 PM PDT
wake me when they announce
by Steven R on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:31:13 PM PDT
I am so sick of the shadowy "ooh so and so said this and that". Actions speak louder than words.
John McCain is a devil worshiping, radical, elite terrorist. My email told me so.
by LogicaLizE on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:00:19 PM PDT
They should be moving and they should be moving fast. At any rate, before Puerto Rico votes.
If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!
by Fairy Tale on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:03:13 PM PDT
squeak by in Indiana -
http://www.boston.com/... For a party that loves to hate the Clintons, Republican voters have cast an awful lot of ballots lately for Senator Hillary Clinton: About 100,000 GOP loyalists voted for her in Ohio, 119,000 in Texas, and about 38,000 in Mississippi, exit polls show. http://www.washingtonpost.com/... One little-noticed finding was that 6 percent of Clinton's own voters said that they would defect to John McCain in the fall against Clinton herself. These Pennsylvania Democrats clearly were not Clinton enthusiasts. They were voting against Obama.
http://www.boston.com/...
For a party that loves to hate the Clintons, Republican voters have cast an awful lot of ballots lately for Senator Hillary Clinton: About 100,000 GOP loyalists voted for her in Ohio, 119,000 in Texas, and about 38,000 in Mississippi, exit polls show.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
One little-noticed finding was that 6 percent of Clinton's own voters said that they would defect to John McCain in the fall against Clinton herself. These Pennsylvania Democrats clearly were not Clinton enthusiasts. They were voting against Obama.
This means that the SD decision will likely happen starting May 21st. The day after Oregon (and Kentucky) put Sen. Obama over the top, clinching an absolute majority of pledged delegates.
Not the best scenario, but since "Operation Chaos" likely prolonged Sen. Clinton's campaign in both Texas and now Pennsylvania, I think the media is too shallow to look beyond simple vote totals.
We know the battle ahead will be long, but always remember that no matter what obstacles stand in our way, nothing can stand in the way of the power of millions of voices calling for change. We have been told we cannot do this by a chorus of cynics...they will only grow louder and more dissonant ........... We've been asked to pause for a reality check. We've been warned against offering the people of this nation false hope. But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope. Yes. We. Can.
We know the battle ahead will be long, but always remember that no matter what obstacles stand in our way, nothing can stand in the way of the power of millions of voices calling for change.
We have been told we cannot do this by a chorus of cynics...they will only grow louder and more dissonant ........... We've been asked to pause for a reality check. We've been warned against offering the people of this nation false hope.
But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.
Yes. We. Can.
Honor is a gift you can only give yourself. Doubly so in politics.
by Bull Schmitt on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:22:34 PM PDT
The prolonged primary lets us see exactly what they have to throw at Obama. This gets it out there, and as such we have time to combat it before November.
Dennis: Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed! King Arthur: Bloody peasant! Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway!
by wargolem on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:31:07 PM PDT
let's get this sucker in the can.
I'll be a bit upset if there isn't a sizeable bloc of SDs who do not endorse before May 6. If they're out there lurking, let's give Obama a little bump and good press before the next primary.
It'll likely make the victory a bit bigger (as people begin to recognize the inevitability) and put him in stronger footing going into the last few contests which are not as favorable as the NC/IN night will be.
by masterxi43 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:55:05 PM PDT
a growing chorus, not a bloc of SDs, which leads to accusations of misogynistic anti-hillary 'let's get her' sentiment. Will of the people, slowly reflected in the 'ayes' of the SDs....that's what we want.
If there's one thing that makes me sick | It's when someone tries to hide behind politics. - Ramones
by Everest42 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:35:51 PM PDT
not talking 50
but a good 5-10 all at once before the next primary would be great. Hey, let's aim for enough to reverse the delegate gain she got out of PA.
by masterxi43 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:38:14 PM PDT
..is the worst they got -- presumably because they're trying to nominate HRC for us -- then it's almost over.
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. Alfred Adler
by Quicksilver2723 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:23:00 PM PDT
They know that there's a stack of dirt a mile high that can be thrown at Hillary. Remember, these aren't rubes, they're party officials, elected officials, political operatives, etc. They know the business they're in and Hillary has been on the scene long enough for these people to be well aware of all the negative shit that's out there about her (and they can assume there's plenty that isn't out there yet), and they know the GOP is down on their shriveled, arthritic knees every night praying for some miracle that will allow HRC to get the nomination...and they know why. They also know that undermining the voters at this point would be incredibly destructive in every way. There's simply no reason for them to do anything other than endorse the winner of the most pledged delegates.
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Ghandi
by Triscula on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:36:59 PM PDT
...that attacks from within one's own party have much more traction than those coming from one's opponents. The public expects Republicans to say all sorts of outrageous things about Obama, and will tend to discount most of them; but, when the mud is being slung by fellow Democrats, more people will be inclined to take it at face value. (Plus, it makes it easier and more convincing for McCain if he can preface his attacks by "even members of my opponent's own party say...")
by regnaDkciN on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:25:41 PM PDT
dragged out. And, it's admittedly petty.
To hear the resounding boos directed towards Sen. Clinton when she addresses the convention.
Only today, after all this time, did I think it would be appropriate for her to be publicly mocked by fellow Democrats. She deserves a negative reaction which cannot be spun or denied, something which might actually soak through her multiple layers of denial.
Sure, it's a worst-case nightmare (i.e., we go to a contested convention) twisted into a sick fantasy of seeing this selfish jerk get a memorable comeuppance, but at least it's my sick fantasy.
"So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."
by wader on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:59:31 PM PDT
spreadsheet, which has been largely accurate in the most closely contested states - he predicts he'll win 53% to 46%.
One major advantage Obama has in Indiana: only 20% of residents are Catholic as opposed to Pennsylvania where 53% are Catholic and Ohio which also has an enormous Catholic population.
by ObamaManiac2008 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:34:51 PM PDT
this is giving me an ulcer!
by Fury on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:40:22 PM PDT
I think they are waiting for her to lose something, so it doesn't look like an obvious shift... You are right when you say that the Hillary supporters will claim she is being singled out...the establishemt is against her...etc... or the patriarchy...or whatever....if they shift in mass..that will seem to her supporters as contrary to the media's "the comeback kid" mantra...or the she can do it mentality... In that case her supporters will cry foul... The Hillary camp is in such denial...the supers will have to have "an event" a loss of a state....whatever...then we will see the shift...
by cjsmom on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:21:42 PM PDT
they want everyone to look up and say, yah, she lost. They are waiting for that sweetspot when it won't foment complete mayhem.
I used to think they were spineless. Now I see (I think) they are trying to keep the party together.
All extremists are irrational and should be exposed
by SeanF on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:29:50 PM PDT
they want there to be so few delegates left that it is mathematically IMPOSSIBLE (not just improbable) for her to win.
If they throw it to Obama before that, they can legitimately complain that they 'stole' it from her.
That point is soon coming. There will be a point (soon, hopefully) where even if she took every remaining pledged delegate, she couldn't beat him.
by mmacdDE on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:01:25 PM PDT
in a way that her supporters can accept.
We're on a blind date with Destiny, and it looks like she's ordered the lobster!
by Prof Haley on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:34:28 PM PDT
Yeah, right. Hillary Clinton's campaign is becoming a joke day by day. If they try to argue that the establishment is against them, it's the stupidest argument ever. The Clintons ARE the establishment.
"The Power to change this party, and the power to change this country is in your hands, not mine." - Gov. Howard Dean, MD
by deaniac83 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:44:58 PM PDT
but I can see their waiting as principled - let the voters vote before declaring. I can respect it, even if I would love to see this crap behind us.
Naam!! Tunaweza!!
by bogbud on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:23:33 PM PDT
in most years, it is always way over by now. I know the arguments about building infrastructure and the base, but i think we are beyond that now.
I don't want to give Hillary another 5 weeks or so to help the RNC come up with new attacks.
They could give Obama a bunch of SDs and then after IN/NC, it would be over. NO one would pay any attention to her.
by peteri2 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:26:07 PM PDT
to declare it over after a half a dozen primaries and jump in then, but now that we are this close to the end, with just a few states left to shine, I suppose they don't want to appear like they're undercutting the process. It's a little counterintuitive given the math and the damage to our candidate, but I think they are simply trying to be conciliatory.
In the meantime, I'll want to bury my head on the Kentucky and WV primary days, I'd hate to hear the Clinton arguments get re-ignited and fanned by the press at that point.
Diary is certainly encouraging, though. Thanks!
by leawood on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:42:03 PM PDT
If HRC supporters feel like they were robbed, they won't vote for us.
by jkennerl on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:42:49 PM PDT
of anything. She's the one who is all for the SD's doing whatever they like.
I think they are afraid of the Clintons and don't want to vote against her for fear of retaliation. So they are waiting until she cannot possibly win and therefore cannot possibly hurt them.
It was the same in the UK just before Thatcher got the boot. On the first vote, all but the bravest MP's voted for her. On the second vote, when it became clear that there was some dissent within the party, she was voted out in a landslide.
by LisainNYC on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:56:23 PM PDT
I think you're on to something here. Look what they did to Richardson. Hillary Clinton will not win the primary and will never again live in the Whitehouse but make no mistake, the Clinton's are still a powerhouse political machine.
John McCain supports our troops?
by FritztheCat on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:13:26 PM PDT
They were robbing all the other candidates before the race even started.
One of the few reasons she remains in this race is because "her" superdelegates disenfranchised voters in the 48 states before the primary began, attempting to put every contest in the irrelevant category.
Thank You, Senator Clinton :-)
by Eman on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:11:20 PM PDT
Well, at least this is why I think they are waiting.
by Hark on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:28:42 PM PDT
"Sunni, Shi'a. You say to-ma-to, I say to-mah-to." (McCain will be heard saying this before the general election ends.)
by RoCali on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:32:49 PM PDT
when they drip in like this, it's not going to be nearly as obvious that the drip is actually speeding Barack's arrival at the threshold.
He is 234 delegates closer to the finish right now, largely thanks to a drip which barely gets any notice. As it should be.
by Hark on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:36:33 PM PDT
i think this is the best argument i have heard for the drip. Thanks!
by peteri2 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:39:02 PM PDT
I see no reason not to turn up the tap just a bit!
"We the People of the United States..." -U.S.Constitution
by elwior on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:16:08 PM PDT
I think the dripping is a safety net. For one, they take away the impact of a Hillary superdelegate by announcing one or two immediately after she does. Two, they can defray any negative press Obama may get (more than likely because of someone he knows rather than something he's done) by announcing after bad news.
by FritztheCat on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:16:15 PM PDT
the anaconda strategy, ie... "increasing pressure" on Hillary. I heard one of the pundits say Tuesday, that the Obama team was determined to knock her out in Penn, one way or another. A win wasn't really likely, but they decided to go balls to the wall to bled her dry financially and to get as close as possible, in what they termed a "suffocation" strategy.
by PLS on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:50:03 PM PDT
Yes, and Obama is also applying
by PLS on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:52:01 PM PDT
There aren't enough states left to justify all fifty hanging on any longer.
by Cornfeddem on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:29:13 PM PDT
I wish they weren't so stuck up. They need to just let loose and run with it.
Puns aside, I'm so sick of these muthas, I could scream.
NetrootNews coming soon!
by ksh01 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:30:36 PM PDT
At first, a large number of superdelegates planned to announce their support for Obama following Super Tuesday, but he didn’t do well enough to warrant that; then it was to be after Ohio and Texas; then after Pennsylvania; and some Democrats suggest that if Obama wins both Indiana and North Carolina a number of superdelegates will announce for him then. But the prevailing thinking is to allow the race to play out, avoiding a confrontation with Clinton and her backers, but also letting the pressure grow on her to justify continuing to fight a bloody but lost cause. This is, the thinking goes, the best and perhaps only way to get the thing wrapped up, as they so desperately want to do.
Never give up! Never surrender!
by oscarsmom on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:34:31 PM PDT
it ends more naturally. At that point, I think even her people would be willing to throw in the towel. Even Carville admits that losing Indiana finishes them off. That would seem to be the best possible ending now, a big May 6th win, Hillary could get out "for the sake of Party unity," and THAT claim will have credibility, though WE know she would stick around were there any chance at all of her winning. This would leave her future aspirations intact. Of course if she wins Indiana, she'll keep fighting like Hell, and we'll lose another month.
by elwior on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:30:04 PM PDT
especially after PA!! Every time it seems like it has a chance to end, it doesn't. So she will probably win IN and it will drag on. Be prepared!
by oscarsmom on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:31:38 PM PDT
I'm wondering how many racist whites there are in Indiana that will vote for Hillary.
by Dash Riprock on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:40:07 PM PDT
Great article in Seattle Times today taking a more detailed look at the demographic data coming out of PA:
"Obama loss may not be about race, but gender"
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/...
by oscarsmom on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:43:53 PM PDT
(yeah sure, you say!) But it is. He always starts these things way, way in the hole and/or with Hillary holding onto a stacked deck. (The one thing his campaign is bad at is managing expectations!) But Indiana is a level playing field, a place where having the better candidate and the better campaign can translate into victory! And we're talking wooden-stake type victory in this one!
by elwior on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:02:24 PM PDT
by oscarsmom on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:03:05 PM PDT
As some talking head on TV pointed out yesterday, the one thing being over looked here is this; when both candidates campaign in a state her number go down while his go up. Obama has never lost a race yet where he started out ahead, at least according to the guy last night. Obama is ahead in Indiana right now.
And the fact that an important part of the state is dominated by the Chicago media market makes a huge difference. He has closer ties to Indiana that Hillary did to Penn, and Indiana has a younger average aged population.
by PLS on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:04:41 PM PDT
The problem with letting this go much further is that Hillary will say that she needs to know what the results of Florida and Michigan are assuming there is some type of litigation and she could argue that she can't quit while the fate of those entities is unresolved. Following that logic, she might want this to continue past the August convention. This must end as soon as possible.
by jan0080 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:08:34 PM PDT
close and she ends up winning 51 to 49 or something. Is that really enough of a victory to keep going? Oh wait, it's Hillary's, World Hillary's World.
by ObamaManiac2008 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:36:36 PM PDT
for a couple of reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if the Obama campaign is directing when to announce support. Anybody ever notice how an important endorsement comes out in the midst of an Obama setback? Richardson and Nunn come to mind.
Also, super-delegates who are elected officials probably want their day in the sun. One out of a few to announce will have national interviews and all that. One in a huge group may get lost in the shuffle.
"A purpose of human life, no matter who is controlling it, is to love whoever is around to be loved." -Kurt Vonnegut
by NMDad on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:42:19 PM PDT
new do nothing democrats in congress.
Same ole' same ole'.
No matter how cynical I get, it's impossible to keep up.
by Flippant on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:48:37 PM PDT
Since when is it new to do nothing in Congress? What has Congress done for the general welfare of the people in the past 25 years or more? Oh yeah, they investigated steroids in baseball. Sure glad we have a Congress.
by Fabienne on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:08:15 PM PDT
their primary yet-Oregon, montana, NC to name a few. When Obama wins their state they will feel free to step up to the plate. At least, I hope that is all they are waiting for.
Today's problems are yesterday's solutions. Don Beck
by Sherri in TX on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:06:05 PM PDT
in Oregon, but Sen. Wyden said he might be deciding in Denver.
by Molly M on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:24:08 PM PDT
Honestly, I'm tired of these stories. "50 SD's to Endorse." "20 Over the Next Two Weeks." "Dozens in the Wings."
If they each do it, once a day, the message will be clear without any of them handing it to Obama outright. In fact, if enough of them endorse before the end of the primary season he can clinch it with big enough wins in Oregon, Montana, South Dakota, etc. So he can still win the nomination in a manner that lets the voters be the final deciders.
"Not just with words, but with deeds." -- Barack Obama
by kath25 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:17:20 PM PDT
this is NOT one of those stories.
It does not claim that they are going to endorse soon. They plan to wait til the voting is over. The article explains their positions and they are actually well-reasoned.
Hillary has put us in a difficult position, no doubt about it. But I agree with their plan of action.
by oscarsmom on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:25:55 PM PDT
that if they are the ones to end it, Hillary's supporters will be pissed. If Obama wins both Indiana and NC she will give up because she will run out of funds. So, the supers will sit on their hands once again...praying that the voters end it themselves.
by PLS on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:17:55 PM PDT
they are cowards.
"News is what someone, somewhere, doesn't want you to know. Everything else is just advertising."
by trueblue illinois on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:23:27 PM PDT
the party to remain as one. rash action now can cause long-term damage. The goal is to get Hillary supporters to admit they've lost.
by SeanF on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:35:49 PM PDT
come to Jesus herself before they need to give her the Talk; simple as that.
John McCain: The only mavericky straight-talker surrounded by corporate lobbyists
by atrexler on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:37:50 PM PDT
...when this is all over. And I imagine that lots of them figure that they'll need to make deals with her and get her support in the future. Very few of the SDs are so big that they can afford to risk antagonizing HRC. And she's giving off every signal that she still believes she can win this. Call it delusional, call it what you like... but by carrying on as if she really believes she can win, she sends a strong signal to all those who are at all faint of heart to wait. I imagine that she's also conveyed to them through back channels that she would not take it kindly if they "betrayed" her.
Have you read the The Democrats' Da Vinci Code?
by Nate Roberts on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:48:24 PM PDT
I suppose this will happen sometime, but I've been seeing stories like this posted here since Iowa and all we've seen are trickles. Granted those trickles have favored Obama and I think when the wave breaks it will do so for Obama, but for the moment, the phrase "at some point" makes this less of a recommended diary and more of a post along the lines of "Meteor will strike the earth...at some point"!
Free markets would be a great idea, if markets were actually free.
by dweb8231 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:59:09 PM PDT
many of the Supers are hoping that Obama puts Clinton away with victories in NC and Indiana. Then they can say they gave Clinton every chance they could to win on the merits, before falling in line behind the winner.
I'm sure the Clintons were good to these Supers in the 90s and beyond, and many of them don't want to piss her/them off, too much.
"Speak out, judge fairly, and defend the rights of oppressed and needy people." Proverbs 31:9
by zdefender on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 04:12:12 PM PDT
more Democrats registered in battleground states and to drown out John McCain.
by ObamaManiac2008 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:33:27 PM PDT
...til it's more certain. No one wants to get on the clintons' bad side.
You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.
by DawnG on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:11:18 PM PDT
... are better. Because they do the steady "drip drip drip" thing. We're probably lucky that the four being chosen tomorrow (three add-ons and an AZ party official vacancy getting filled) might all go for Hillary. (NH, NM & AZ)
John McCain voted against health care for kids.
by Land of Enchantment on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:46:41 PM PDT
The text you want inside a quote box is outside it.
Each election year is an ethics test for the mainstream media, and the paper is invariably returned with "See Me After Class"
by jpfdeuce on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:21:20 PM PDT
I think you just pasted the quoted text in the wrong place. If you open the post you'll see a bit of code right before the text that you want to indicate is quoted (by having it show up in the text box). Right now, your post probably has the word "blockquote" twice between some other symbols. If so, that's where your problem lies. The second "blockquote" along with the symbols enclosing it, needs to be moved to the end of the quoted text.
To explain further, I'm going to have to write this out in words, rather than the actual symbols, because they won't show up in my post. So here goes. What you need to move to the end of the quote is this: left-pointing-arrow slash blockquote right-pointing arrow.
Leave the first "blockquote" and the arrows around it where they are. Then click "Post" and it should be fine. I hope what I've written here is understandable. It's much easier to do than to explain.
"I'm asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington...I'm asking you to believe in yours." - Barack Obama
by Wordie on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:49:27 PM PDT
by Wordie on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:53:10 PM PDT
The superdelegate was pretty tight-lipped, eh?
Founder of the Committee to Save asdf
by droogie6655321 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 02:27:25 PM PDT
and thanks for this, great first effort. Good reminder that the old political hands aren't as easily rattled as we are. The folks that haven't declared yet are obviously the most cautious, if they are still ok we are ok.
by PLS on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 03:10:10 PM PDT
this is like the nineteenth time i've heard this. people keep saying it, but it never happens. i wish it would. but until it does, i'm done getting my hopes up.
by the disinfector on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:06:15 PM PDT
wide narrow
View Story | 231 comments