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by BoBo2020 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:04:19 AM PDT
My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total. Barbara Jordan 1974
by gchaucer2 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:06:38 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
"We will now proceed to construct the socialist order."
by 7November on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:19:56 AM PDT
_______________________________ Healing the universe is an inside job.
by spotDawa on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:32:23 AM PDT
curse of the drinking classes
pugma
by carlyle4 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:14:45 AM PDT
An agnostic not because I don't know if there's a God, but because I don't care.
by filmgeek83 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:33:58 AM PDT
What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.
by agnostic on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:46:40 AM PDT
by spotDawa on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:49:22 AM PDT
somewhere.....
not here, it's foggy!
Stop McCain.
by jancw on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:13:40 AM PDT
lol, I have no idea what you're talking about. What is a "yard arm"?
by spotDawa on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:21:35 AM PDT
Heck in Australia it's already Saturday. You've got some catching up to do mate!
by bernardpliers on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:39:21 AM PDT
It's an old, old, expression. The yardarm is a piece of wood used in sailing ships. The "sun is over the yardarm" if it's late enough. (Why "over" I can't figure. It's under later than it's over.)
"I'm not opposed to all wars; I'm opposed to dumb wars." -- Obama in 2002
by Frank Palmer on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:46:48 AM PDT
Thanks!
by spotDawa on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:12:31 AM PDT
I didn't get back to update. I think it is time to drink when the sun is over the yard arm.... early it would be under, late it would be under, midday it would be over, eh?
by jancw on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:43:50 PM PDT
Actually it was 3 sheets to the wind, meaning they had shut down the sails, allowing them to flap in the wind, and were taking a break, ie drunk to the point of not being able to control the ship.
by 7November on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 02:03:52 PM PDT
Bob Hackworth for Congress
by jpfdeuce on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:39:01 AM PDT
noli, amabo, verberare lapidem ne perdas manum -- Plautus
by fritzrth on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:43:01 AM PDT
bottom's up.
by agnostic on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:47:25 AM PDT
by Lawdog on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:57:10 AM PDT
Listen to Noam Chomsky's Necessary Illusions. (mp3!)
by borkitekt on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:58:52 AM PDT
rum 'n' coke Friday isn't posted until AFTER 5 (pm that is)!
Article 6: "...no religious test shall *ever* be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the U.S."
by billlaurelMD on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:52:05 AM PDT
so start drinking early -- we might not be around at 5...
"Old soldiers never die -- they get young soldiers killed." -- Bill Maher
by Cali Scribe on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:43:04 AM PDT
it's 5 o'clock somewhere
Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D. 76 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!
by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:18:35 AM PDT
I won't be complacent this time. Been there, done that, got the orange jumpsuit.
by Nowhere Man on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:37:00 AM PDT
but only if you switch that to Saturday.
小浜 (Obama) TShirts
by jarnikles on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:37:14 AM PDT
This news has me higher that a "Cadillac" triple marguerita on the rocks. Hic.
by calibpatriot on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 11:52:40 AM PDT
.. so get tipsy!
The events of the last couple of days (Obama regaining poll footing, Dodd & Leahy calling for Clinton to concede, Pelosi, Reid and Dean making clear that Supers should not - and likely would not - overturn the will of the voters, and the Casey endorsement) appear to signal that the tide is finally turning.
That, my friends, is reason enough to throw back a shot of Jack Daniels....
by John in Chicago on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:33:00 AM PDT
The one thing we know about the McCain campaign...is that they're very good at negative campaigns, they're not so good at governing- Barack Obama
by wishingwell on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:09:33 AM PDT
Doesn't carry much weight, as he's already cast his lot.
Wishful thinking, in any case, this notion that Clinton will drop out. Perhaps when she loses North Carolina, but probably not.
I'm afraid we might be going all the way to Denver and Obama's failure to get behind revotes in Florida and Michigan gives Clinton an opening to use the uncertainty over those two states to prolong the primary.
by david mizner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:07:00 AM PDT
that because he's an Obama backer, he's swayed from the truth?
I could see that, yeah, some people will believe that. I don't think those with even a tenuous grip on reality will believe that, though.
"2009" The end of an error
by sheddhead on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:10:02 AM PDT
I see a lot of people at mydd calling for Obama to drop out, and I myself make the assumption that since they're Clinton backers, they're swayed from the truth. And I have a pretty tenuous grip on reality.
Emphasize Obama's positives -- not McCain's negatives. It's a tougher job, but a more convincing one.
by motbob on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:18:01 AM PDT
Obama has more delegates, more states and more votes; one would have to be outright delusional to ask and expect Obama to drop out.
An Obama backer and senator asking Hillary drop out makes sense since she is so far behind.
by mnguy66 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:30:40 AM PDT
They're just as delusional as their candidate, who thought that the way to resolve it was for the winner to be the runner up's VP.
TexasDemocrat Giggity giggity giggity...Iraq's a Quagmire
by TexasDemocrat on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:42:22 AM PDT
she was already losing: so her supporters were sad: they wished they could have both: she graciously hinted at the vp slot by saying "some of my supporters wish both of us could be on the ticket".
Look it up. She never offered hin vp slot. Pelosi pretended she did, Obama pretended she did. Her actual words are not backing that up.
You guys need to be more careful readers.
Its only the Obama spin that she meant that he would be her vp.
Cars After The Age Of Oil: EVs in 2010
by dotcommodity on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:18:22 AM PDT
that is never done. no one ever actually offers anyone the VP slot in public. it is always done more privately than that.
but there is no other way to interpret this:
On The Early Show, co-anchor Harry Smith said to Clinton, "We talked to a lot of people in Ohio who said there really isn't that significant a difference between you two, and they'd like to see you both on the ticket." "Well, that may, you know, be where this is headed," Clinton said. "But of course, we have to decide who's on the top of the ticket, and I think that the people of Ohio very clearly said that it should be me."
On The Early Show, co-anchor Harry Smith said to Clinton, "We talked to a lot of people in Ohio who said there really isn't that significant a difference between you two, and they'd like to see you both on the ticket."
"Well, that may, you know, be where this is headed," Clinton said. "But of course, we have to decide who's on the top of the ticket, and I think that the people of Ohio very clearly said that it should be me."
That doesn't sound like she's talking about an Obama/Clinton ticket, does it?
and WJC was a lot more explicit:
President Clinton Saturday suggested a Clinton-Obama ticket would be "unstoppable." "He would win the urban areas and the upscale voters. She would win the rural areas that we lost when President Reagan was president," he said while campaigning in Pass Christian, Mississippi. "If you put those two things together, you'd have an almost unstoppable force."
President Clinton Saturday suggested a Clinton-Obama ticket would be "unstoppable."
"He would win the urban areas and the upscale voters. She would win the rural areas that we lost when President Reagan was president," he said while campaigning in Pass Christian, Mississippi. "If you put those two things together, you'd have an almost unstoppable force."
so let's all stop pretending the Clinton campaign was not trying to float the joint ticket as a way of siphoning votes away from Obama by making people think they could vote for her and get both. It wasn't Obama campaign spin, it was every political commentator in the country who jumped on it. it was that transparent. i don't know how long you have been following politics, but only the extremely naive failed to see that was exactly what was going on.
by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:42:06 AM PDT
despair is off the table
by eyeball on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:43:52 AM PDT
remember Obama said it in the Kodack Theatre debate in response to joint ticket he said "that depends on who is at the top of the ticket".
They are in a competitive race and so, duh! they both want to be p.
But she said what I quoted when she was losing, and in response to her supporters not wanting to see her out of the ticket entirely, as a result.
Many things are said in 24/7 campaigns, remember. Context.
by dotcommodity on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:41:25 AM PDT
::duck and run for the vehicles::
So long as men die, Liberty will never perish. -- Charlie Chaplin, "The Great Dictator"
by khereva on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:03:03 AM PDT
but you got there first.
I canNOT understand how someone who should be informed (considering they frequent political blogs) doesn't know or remember the facts here.
It's absolutely disconcerting. :-(
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
by Donna in Rome on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:51:22 AM PDT
by jqb on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:56:16 AM PDT
The latest estimate is that Clinton picked up just 12 additional delegates from her victories Tuesday night, but the lift from her victories in Ohio and Texas was huge. And Wednesday on CBS' "The Early Show" she all but offered Obama the vice presidential spot on her ticket. "That may be where this headed, but of course we have to decide who's on top of the ticket," Clinton said. "I think people of Ohio very clearly said it should be me."
The latest estimate is that Clinton picked up just 12 additional delegates from her victories Tuesday night, but the lift from her victories in Ohio and Texas was huge. And Wednesday on CBS' "The Early Show" she all but offered Obama the vice presidential spot on her ticket.
"That may be where this headed, but of course we have to decide who's on top of the ticket," Clinton said. "I think people of Ohio very clearly said it should be me."
here's the link:
by eyeball on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:42:25 AM PDT
http://wcbstv.com/...
by eyeball on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:44:56 AM PDT
(I paraphrase), "But it's just a question of who should be on the top of the ticket and obviously my supporters and I think it should be me," or words to that effect.
by Loquatrix on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:43:20 AM PDT
"But you'll have to vote for me to make that happen."
Why would she need to ask for votes to get the second spot in a two person race when she already had it nailed down?
by gabilan on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:42:38 AM PDT
More careful readers? You should try LISTENING to the obvious. The statements of Hillary/Bill and the whole campaign were quite obvious. If you don't think they were pushing the idea of her at top of ticket, you are just plain in denial.
she graciously hinted at the vp slot..
? Puhleeze.
by gateKrasher on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:57:41 AM PDT
dishonest.
by jqb on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:54:41 AM PDT
She followed that "some of my supporters wish both of us could be on the ticket" up with "that may be possible some day" or "that may very well happen" repeatedly. Obama called her on her crap - she was trying to hoodwink people into thinking they could get two for one if they just voted for Clinton in the primary. The point is that she, in second place, is in no position to talk about the VP slot at all, since the person who finishes second doesn't get to choose the VP.
"The Power to change this party, and the power to change this country is in your hands, not mine." - Gov. Howard Dean, MD
by deaniac83 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 02:16:46 PM PDT
MYDD posters are counting MI and FL, who they believe should and will be seated as is.
Sample:
Including MI & FL, Clinton is only behind in pledged-delegates by 46-56 delegates, which could be halved in Pennsylvania alone.
Harry Mitchell is my new congressman, replacing JD Hayworth.
by 2liberal on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:56:09 AM PDT
but coming in second in a two person race is still losing. It isn't as though there's some kind of spread Obama has to cover in order to win. Winning is winning. Period.
by elmo on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:16:39 AM PDT
Clinton campaign will do the same, which is exactly why it's unrealistic, bordering on delusional, to expect Clinton to drop out, not with Michigan and Florida sitting there unresolved and ambiguous.
And obviously Hillary had already shown she's unlikely to be swayed by the opinion of other pols, especially those that already support Obama.
by david mizner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:09:06 AM PDT
There are rules. The rules were clear. MI and FL broke the rules. Hence...MI and FL get penalized, as it says in the rules.
Should MI and FL come up with a plan to re-do their contests that can pass their own legislatures, I think everyone (including the candidates) would be happy to put it into action. If not, then the candidates will have to work out some agreement for seating those delegates, probably by awarding half to each candidate.
by Big River Bandido on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:32:12 AM PDT
ambiguous, then why is Howard Dean talking about trying to resolve it?
You folks have to try to deal with reality.
I'd like Hillary to drop out today. I'd also like donuts to grow on trees.
by david mizner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:53:58 AM PDT
ways to resolve the nomination contest in general, not Michigan or Florida. He has already stated that the DNC would accept re-votes in those states; there's nothing left for him to do on that. The impasse there is with the Michigan and Florida legislatures, not the party. If those states cannot come up with a plan for a re-vote, Dean's job will be to try and get the campaigns to agree on a formula for seating those delegations.
by Big River Bandido on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 02:42:31 PM PDT
This is a circular argument: "of course he wants Clinton to drop out, he's for Obama!" But then if someone who hasn't declared allegiance had called for Clinton to drop out, how much do you want to bet you'd hear "Oh he wants Clinton to drop out, therefore he must be for Obama!" Anyone calling for Clinton to drop out will be framed as an Obama supporter anyway, so it doesn't matter. What matters is the facts: Hillary Clinton can no longer attain this nomination without a completely destroying the Democratic party's chance to regain the White House in November. Period.
by deaniac83 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 02:12:55 PM PDT
Well Monster Inc has no hold on reality at all, so expect them to push this point with gusto.
by nisleib on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:18:02 AM PDT
The splurge is working!
by gotgat54 on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:52:53 AM PDT
the FL and MI voters, that's the height or low of gutter politics, take your pick. It just amazes me what depths they will go to in order to win.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire..give us the tools and we will finish the job. Winston Churchill
by Badabing on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 01:09:05 PM PDT
are you referring?
The reality that this thing won;t be over until the SDs vote and that it will be tough to hold that election until the Florida-Michigan mess is resolved?
That reality or some other?
by david mizner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:27:18 AM PDT
MI and FL has been resolved. The states aren't going to revote.
by vlajos on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:37:29 AM PDT
Revote, maybe; how and whether to apportion the delegates, no.
Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse. ~ Lily Tomlin
by vigilant meerkat on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:46:48 AM PDT
which is why Dean is saying it will be resolved before the convention.
by david mizner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:55:30 AM PDT
a) Both states legislatures have given up on any kind of re-vote plan
b) Whomever has the most pledged delegates (aka O'Bama) controls the rules committee, which in turn decides whether or not, and how to, seat the MI & FL delegations.
It's a done deal. It's been a done a deal for quite some time now, but the media's obsession w/ keeping the race alive along with Clinton's Ohio win have given her campaign license to drag this thing out.
But this is the first time we've seen Democratic officials actually calling for her to concede, and not doing it anonymously.
by John in Chicago on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:38:31 AM PDT
have to be seated in some way.
by david mizner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:54:33 AM PDT
They do still need to be seated, that is correct.
But if Obama is going to control the rules committee, which means he gets to decide HOW they are seated, then wouldn't you agree that it's a foregone conclusion that those delegations are going to be seated in such a manner that is favorable to Obama - or at the very least, neutral?
by John in Chicago on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:03:16 AM PDT
This continued yelling about it is just another attempt to pry people from Obama.
POW qualifies to run a war or a country like being locked in a basement qualifies to design and build basements for high rises. me
by maybeeso in michigan on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 06:50:01 AM PDT
the need for re-votes. Factually, they wouldn't make any difference, therefore, in fact, no one would be "dis-enfranchised" by their absence. (Yes, if the margins were the same in Hillary's favor, I'd say the same).
No Retro-active Immunity for Rule-Breakers.
As I've said in other threads, rules matter. They matter regarding Separation of Powers and they matter regarding Democratic party rules. You can argue that the rules need to be changed. Then change them. Until then ..........
If seniority equated to good judgment, John McCain would be appointed president.
by Juan4All on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:01:51 AM PDT
at the national party or any candidate. I am ticked off at some people in my state, but we'll work that out. sheesh
by maybeeso in michigan on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:01:27 PM PDT
No matter what the thread, it always comes back to Florida/Michigan. Go check out TPM Politics threads. Every damn thread they bring it up, hijack the topic. It's all they have now. They ignore the rules, the fact that Clinton herself dissed the very same poor voters in October.
It's all they have left. And you KNOW with their hard-ball whatever it takes strategy, if the shoe was on the other foot her "principled" argument would be that rules are rules, and suck it up Florida voters.
by bethcf4p on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:06:48 AM PDT
is ALL Obama's fault, according to Clinton. At least this is their spin. Blame it on Obama. HE has disenfranchised the voters. HE is afraid of a revote.
Barack Obama, 44th President of the United States
by winsock on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:41:46 AM PDT
by following the rules, we wouldn't be in this situation, right?
/snark
by Cali Scribe on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:48:47 AM PDT
this topic and I'm an Obama supporter.
The fact is, the Florida-Michigan has not been resolved. How do their delegates get seated?
Dean says that the issue will get worked out before the convention, will get worked out, he says, because the candidates will agree on a resolution, which strikes me as wishful thinking.
Fact is, most people in this thread are describing things as they want them to be, I'm doing my best to describe things as they are.
As long as the Michigan-Florida issue remain unresolved, Clinton has an opening to prolong the primary, which is only one reason that Obama should've helped to make revotes happen. The other reasons are that revotes would be good for Dems in the general election and that millions of voters have been effectively disenfranchised by the stupidity of their reps.
Surely Kos and most people the blogosphere would be strongly supportive of revotes if revotes didn't seem to work against the interests of the candidate they support.
It's a short-sighted position because revotes would be good for the party and therefore good for Obama, who will almost definitely be our nominee.
by david mizner on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 07:54:25 AM PDT
They can't get a legislative agreement for a do-over, and they can't have an election without a bill.
That kicks it back to the DNC. The most the Clinton people will get out of this is 50% of the delegates from those contests. This question has nothing to do with the Obama campaign, it's not them standing in the way of revotes — it's the Michigan and Florida legislatures.
by Big River Bandido on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 08:36:39 AM PDT
Hillary could win Fla but I highly doubt she would pick up Michigan. In the end it wouldn't make much difference either way.
Proud to be everything the Right Wing hates!
by Wild Starchild on Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:41:41 AM PDT
re-votes. But it's not up to me or to Barack Obama. The state legislatures in each state are the ones who have to decide.
One can only hope that FL and MI voters let their legislatures know how they feel, since it was those legislatures that voted to ignore th