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... without running into a whole herd of Elmer Gantry types. James Madison was the Founding Father who most strongly insisted on separation of church and state. He was a deeply religious man, and was most worried about the corruption of the churches, more than that of the state.
We are today seeing the wisdom of the Founding Fathers proven yet again.
I can't expect to live in a democracy if I'm not prepared to do the work of being a citizen.
by Dallasdoc on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 05:53:14 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
And their worst nightmares come true.
"The truth shall set you free - but first it'll piss you off." Gloria Steinem
Iraq Moratorium
by One Pissed Off Liberal on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 06:30:58 AM PDT
They say patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels but I think the last refuge of scoundrels, and especially rich ones , is religion
If Liberals really hated America we'd vote Republican
by exlrrp on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:22:54 AM PDT
Too hard to decide.
Read news on Radioactive Leaks.
by means are the ends on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:39:53 AM PDT
... to things like this? If they did, would they be Republicans?
by aClem on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:40:52 AM PDT
how many of the truly (at least in their own eyes) religious Republicans are going to be all that upset? Many of them buy into the "persecution of Christians" belief, an investigation of a Christian religious group isn't likely to be sitting well with them; the event reported on just might be seen as "doing the Lord's work" and raise Huckabee's popularity with them.
by wondering if on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:59:33 AM PDT
I'm Ron Shepston and I'm not done yet. There's much left to accomplish.
by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:21:45 AM PDT
is the FIRST refuge of the scoundrel.
America: It's a good IDEA for a country ...
by Tony Seybert on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:18:47 AM PDT
even in "polite" company, I make a point of asking:
Which religion are we talking about? Catholic? Greek Orthodox? Methodist? Lutheran? Southern Baptist? Evangelical Megachurch? Televangelism? Mormonism? Judaism? Shia Islam? Sunni Islam? Ismaili Islam? The Druze sect in Lebanon? Shaivite Hinduism? Vaishnavite Hinduism? The Hari Krishna cult? Mahayana Buddhism? Hinayana Buddhisim? Tibetan Buddhism? Zen Buddhism? Shintoism? Scientology? Heaven's Gate? Branch Davidianism? One of the millennialist cults in Najaf, Iraq? The Norse pantheon? Or how about the Greek or Roman pantheon? Or someone else's "one true faith?"
And then, as the degree of offense and confusion mounts, it always seems worth asking and reminding:
Can't we agree that the Founders got it right? Religion is a private matter, and there should be an absolute wall between Church and State. The State should not be in the business of promoting any religion over any other. Attempting to do so invites pointless, endless squabbles.
Maybe the argument does not change anyone's mind, but perhaps it at least raises the decibel level of cognitive dissidence in the mind of a fundamentalist zealot.
by FMArouet on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:44:55 AM PDT
That's the actual point of course. The founders knew the trouble created when there are conflicts over whose god has the biggest (insert appropriate gonads here). Ooops...I may want to retract that parenthetical phrase, no? But I think you get the drift.
Article 6: "...no religious test shall *ever* be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the U.S."
by billlaurelMD on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:29:25 AM PDT
Sort of proves your excellent point.
And Zoroastrianism is so obscure, it didn't even make your list. Who knew that they still existed, in unbroken lineage, from so many thousands of years ago? But they do. And they may be in your town, just like mine. Along with the common garden variety Hindus, Buddhists, and etc. that are common in CA.
Vive la difference!
by means are the ends on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 08:46:08 AM PDT
"People of the Book", as are Judaism and Christianity, pre-Islamic religions with theological views substantially in agreement with Islam. Unfortunately some of the Avesta were lost, which at times has had a negative impact on the standing of Zoroastrianism.
by wondering if on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:11:23 AM PDT
had Xerxes conquered Greece we would most likely be squabbling about WWAMD (Ahura Mazda) instead of WWJD.
John McCain loves to suck sausage with Lindsey Graham.
by The Dead Man on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 09:46:15 AM PDT
Do you remember why? I'm not sure that a Persian presence in Greece would have necessarily held back the Romans from expanding into the Middle East. But it's still interesting to ponder...
Oh, and by the way, WWAMD? He'd buy a Miata.
by Nemo Yocto on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:59:21 AM PDT
I've even known some Parsis, today's Zoroastrians. I'll include their religion whenever I need again to make such a listing in a polemic with a fundamentalist zealot.
by FMArouet on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:36:10 AM PDT
culture--Indian, yet different, too!
OT fashion note: There is a typically Parsi sari my friend showed me that is the traditional shape, but is made from white Dotted Swiss material, embroidered with little pink rosebuds! It's sort of mindblowing, actually.
Apparently, there is a Parsi European connection (I saw this same material endlessly when I lived in Germany), so many Parsi women use this lovely European fabric in a very Indian way. Quite cosmopolitan, really, and unlike any sari you ever saw before. But very Parsi.
by means are the ends on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 10:56:06 AM PDT
For weeks I've been trying to remember the Burt Lancaster movie about a corrupt holy roller, because Huck reminded me of him (not physically, of course).
Thank you. I will sleep better now.
"Mom, did you hurt yourself, or are you yelling at the TV again?
by litigatormom on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:55:43 AM PDT
You can't run with the religious crowd without running into a whole herd of such poseurs, but there are plenty of us religious folks who believe as Madison did that integration of religion and state is both bad theology and bad politics. And we don't have much tolerance for the dominionists who dominate the Republican party.
Seven score and five years ago... -7.62, -6.36
by wiscmass on Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 11:02:43 AM PDT
wide narrow
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