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showed up between hand and machine counts. Not because Clinton won.
"Balance" does not mean giving the same weight to a lie as you do to the truth.
by delphine on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:38:03 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
machines and methods, I am all for it. There have been too many errors, too many mistakes, and way too much Rovian funny business when it comes to Diebold and other paperless computer methods. There is too much risk of hacking, malicious programming or outside tampering at this stage of developement.
But Dennis has fed the Republicans talking points with the way this hoo-ha was presented, and of course the media made him into "sore-loserman," and put a shadow on Senator clinton...on the talking points, I am sore about that, and I don't hesitate to say so.
Today, 8/19/08, 4144 Americans, and untold Iraqis are dead, tens of thousands more maimed. Bush lied, how soon before your family pays the price for that?
by boilerman10 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 07:41:38 AM PDT
I was paying close attention, and I just observed Congressman Kucinich asking for a recount. Period.
The Dems were weak as water after Florida 2000 & Ohio 2004, and I am very grateful that Dennis is a pillar of strength on verifying that our elections are fair.
No one said anything about Clinton, per se.
If you have some quotes, please share them with us.
Information is the currency of democracy. ~ T.J.
by CIndyCasella on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:14:05 AM PDT
The wording of the last four paragraphs of the widely circulated article from The Hill, which are seen in several follow up articles including the one at businesswire.com datelined from Detroit which also uses the Hill article.
Piggy Limbaugh was quick to use the request for recount as a tool to smear Hillary amd infer that Kucinich's support for Obama in Iowa would be insturmental in a New Hampshire win.
So, let's look. article from Election Defense Alliance. hat tip to Bradblog
R talking point, "Clinton Cheated and can't be trusted."
A simple article from whatreallyhappened leads back to this article again from, Brad Friedman which in turn turned up at Freeperville[I refuse to link to such filth] as unquestioned proof positive that not only Clinton but now Democrats in general had rigged the NH primary, and they in turn use Democrats dot com as a source!...the story starts to grow like Rabbi Akiba's Golem.
R talking point, "Democrats rigged the election and can't be trusted."
Kucinich is viewed as a fruitcake and "garden gnome" at Freeperville, but that is not important, and really not accurate at all. What is important is that a request to recount was been twisted by knaves, and given Dennis's own questioning of results vs polls and his own ill-advised vocal backing for Senator Obama in Iowa which looked like a "kingmaker" gambit, has fed our opponents, brought suspicion upon Senator Clinton for vote tampering in spite of the wretched Diebold, now Premier machinery, and even though Obama would require at least 5 to 6 percentage points victory to stifle and "comeback" talk from the Clinton camp, this recount for all its talk of higher purpose looks like a smear of Senator clinton by a vocal, on the record, candiate who has already tried to play "kingmaker" for Obama.
R Talking Point? "divided Dems fight among themselves, and how can they be trusted?" We have already seen this, it's been front paged here I think within the last few days.
by boilerman10 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 09:35:08 AM PDT
You're just listening to what the Republicans are saying and giving it greater weight than what the Democrats are saying.
Quite frankly, if there had been any voting machine tampering -- and I don't believe there was -- it could just as easily -- and much more likely -- come from the GOP. Jiggering the Diebold software in a Democratic primary wouldn't have to be done by Democrats.
Dennis Perrin's Savage Mules: The Democrats and Endless War
by darrelplant on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 11:13:15 AM PDT
not engage in a circular firing squad.
The November election is by noi means a shoo-in for Democrats, and we had damn we3ll better remember that, or we may lose this nation to a totalitarian pack of loons who claim to be Republicans but are simply knaves.
by boilerman10 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 10:42:42 PM PDT
The reason the handcount towns went for Obama while the machine couint towns went for Hillary is that the cities always favor more "establishment" candidates in NH, while the upscale towns trend toware the "elitist" candidate. Places that favored Bradley and Dean favorored Obama, places that favored Gore and Kerry favored Clinton.
by nascardem on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:04:46 AM PDT
LOL, bringing somebody else's geography and demographics into NH. Clinton carried the "upscale" towns on the seacoast and the Mass border. The towns that voted Obama were in the Mondnock and Lakes Regions, hardly "upscale". Please take your pseudo-populist denunciations of "limousine liberals" on behalf of the power elite elsewheree. It won't fly where there are actually people who know what they're talking about, ok?
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. ~Edward R. Murrow
by ActivistGuy on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:21:34 AM PDT
... but it might not hold water. Chris Chatham on the Science Blogs did a statistical analysis entitled ""The Diebold Effect": Hillary's Votes Higher From Diebold Machines Even Controlling for Demographics (education, income, population, etc)."
[Disclaimer: No election integrity advocate, such as Brad Friedman or Bev Harris is suggesting that they have evidence of fraud, and even if there were fraud that the Clinton's were in on it. They want reliable, fair elections period.]
by Ready2fight on Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:46:03 AM PDT
wide narrow
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